I never liked the term: interactive podcast. Namely because I found most people I’d spoken with fit into one of two categories: podcast people (knew them, loved them, didn’t need them to innovate) and non-podcast people (no interest, and that word wasn’t going to get them to download an app).

For me, the promise of Clubhouse—and social audio and web3—was fundamentally about access. (Looking for my article on Why Clubhouse Ultimately Failed? Click here.)

When people asked me about Clubhouse, I’d talk about sharing the stage and talking shop with the former CMO of WalMart, with the man who ran branding at Coca-Cola, with top creative agency C-suiters and the most brilliant people in my field. I was having meaningful, memorable conversations with people who usually stayed backstage at prestigious conferences. And I was forming relationships with them. If your network is your net worth; if chatting with people who’ve done the things can help you skip the dummy tax, Clubhouse was an opportunity like nothing we’ve ever seen to forge connections. (Instagram keeps serving me ads for a new app called Intro where you can pay to ask a top founder a question—on Clubhouse it was free).

But it didn’t just serve the everyperson with a question or a desire to network. The super impressive people were into it, too. It was novel. It was fun. They could bump into other luminaries as well—or hear a new talent that made everyone come back to their phones like a viral American Idol audition.

Because at its peak there were 10M weekly active users, there was always an interesting conversation. The FOMO was organic and real and the best content rose to the top.

I saw the potential so clearly I pitched Business Insider on a story in 2021 about entrepreneurs who were using Clubhouse to change their business model.

It was the first time I’d seen and felt integrated audio experiences. Through airpods, you could both go about your day—and have participate in a next level conference, make new friends, engage prospective clients.

So, when Glenn Lundy asked me if I’m come on board and transform Breakfast With Champions from the top morning room on the platform into a social audio media company. I leapt into the role as President and COO: building the brand message and aesthetic; connecting with, recruiting, verifying, managing, and support audio influencers worldwide ( at one point managing more than 80 thought leaders at a time including a handbook of policies and a multi-dimensional schedule)

• Setting editorial standards around everything from influencer verification to original content, and thematically titling rooms like article headlines

• Creating partnerships: including a series of sponsored rooms with a complementing influencer campaign, a #GivingTuesday event in partnership with Tiffany Haddish’s foundation that raised $50,000 in 6 hours, pitching brands on creating coordinating experiences in the app and IRL

• Overseeing a podcast strategy that led to 100,000 downloads in 75 days

• Rebranding a Clubhouse Room into a media company complete with articulating a vision that iterated at the speed of app updates, writing a multi-page website, building strategic partnerships.

• Planning an in-person Influencer event in NYC in summer 2021.